5k Anyone?

31. NormanWillis
    Member

    

    OK, I don't want to hijack this thread, so let me make one more post on the cables, and then leave it.

    Apparently there is some signal degradation below 1080p at HDMI v1.3 after about a 30' run, even with a top quality 'normal' cable.  However, Gefen is a top reputable dealer sells a special 'HDMI Super Booster Cable' up to 150'.

    http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dcable.jsp?prod_id=5736

    These 'Super Booster Cables' are a wee bit expensive ($280.00 for a 50', and $420 for a 100'); and it seems that even with these 'Super Booster Cables' about the maximum run for 1080p at HDMI 1.3 is still about 100'.

    Quote "Only cables up to 100' will support HDMI 1.3 at 1080p."

    Quote "The 125 and 150 foot cables will support HDMI 1.2 at 1080p."

    It looks like I could get a 100' run without appreciable loss.  The cable is $420.00, and I would still need a $200.00 Intensity Pro card, plus I would have to lug my workstation around (and be tied to power).  This is fairly limiting as compared to a nanoFlash (or even one of Henry Olonga's laptop capture rigs); but it is definitely a whole lot cheaper than a Nanoflash (or one of Henry's laptop capture rigs), plus there is no backorder on them.

    Again I am left with the desire to forestall the purchase, and see what new breaks loose in the field.  If Canon were to come out with an EOS 6D or even an EOS 5D Mk III that no longer has the 12 minute limit that would 'change the picture' for me again (no pun intended).  I am still in the 'training DVD and learning' mode for the next few weeks, so I think I am going to try to forestall this purchase as long as I can, and see what breaks loose.

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32. composite1
    Moderator

    

    "My rich friend in Minnesota/Florida (he has two houses) has been
    talking to me about how to buy tech.  He says to research, research,
    research; and to forestall purchases as long as you possibly can.  Then
    when (and only when) it is time, get just what you need (without gold
    plating)."

    Norman,

    As you've unknowingly surmised, your friend is 'right' and 'wrong'. Definitely do your research. I've harped on that enough in other discussions so I won't do so here. These days though as you said, 'the tech changes so rapidly' (to paraphrase) the problem with waiting is you get left behind. Everyone who gets the gear up front gets a leg up on the workflow and they have work going out in a current fashion. Though it is prudent to wait, you have to choose wisely on what you wait for. Now, you'll never be able to 'catch up', but if you are marketing yourself in a competitive region, being current often helps make the sale.

    Now, your friend is also right about not getting 'the gold plated stuff'. Bells and whistles are just that. However, you do want the best gear you can afford outfitted with what you need to get the job done.

    Also, I don't think this part of the discussion is 'hijacking the thread'. Since we are discussing the potential of the Mk II issues concerning support gear is integral to helping those interested in making their decisions.

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33. NormanWillis
    Member

    

    >>Also, I don't think this part of the discussion is 'hijacking the thread'. Since we are discussing the potential of the Mk II issues concerning support gear is integral to helping those interested in making their decisions.

    Well I'm glad to hear that.  I think the EOS is a fine piece of gear.  It is just that right now either I can begin editing in earnest, or I can keep writing, and simultaneously learning the NLE.  It is all the same from my point of view.

    However, what changes the equation for me is the likelihood that someone might release some new piece of gear in the next month or two that might be vastly superior to my proposed HF S10 rig.  If they release an EOS 5D Mk III without the 12 minute limit, then that would be a superior way to go.

    I do have some shooting I need to do next week, but I can do that in SD with the Canon GL2...so since I do not need to move yet, I would like to see if the EOS comes available without the 12 minute limit, because that would really be one sweet piece of gear.

     

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34. NormanWillis
    Member

    

    Hi Comp.

    Reply from Canon.

    >>Dear Norman Willis:

    Thank you for your reply.

    The 5D Mark II can only record up to 12 minutes or 4GB of 1920 x 1080
    video at a time.  At 640x480 you can record up to 24 minutes.  If you
    need to record longer, we recommend a dedicated camcorder.

    We hope this helps.  Please write to us again if you have any questions.

    Sincerely,

    Erik

    I wrote him back and asked him if they knew the timeframe for an EOS 5D or equivalent camcorder that had interchangeable lenses, but which does not have the 12 minute limitation.  However, I will be surprised if he will be able to release that information, if he even knows it.

    I can probably forestall my purchase about two months, max, before I will have to move.  But we will see, as I am historically a terrible judge of time.

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35. composite1
    Moderator

    

    By now many of you have seen the video by Vincent Laforet using the Mk II. His short video literally awoke the industry to the Mk II's potential for high-end film & television production. This is a prime example of 'not waiting' to get gear or learn the workflow. This guy was a photographer not a videographer or cinematographer! Yet, he literally established the basic shooting techniques and workflow from location to post. Now everone interested in this is playing catch-up. Already, Canon has worked out the auto-manual exposure bug with a new firmware update. It won't be long before the 12 minute buffer limit goes away too. This video was shot and edited in 72 hours and it set the industry on its ear. Vincent Laforet is now considered a Digital Cinematographer and has been doing video productions using the Mk II since. Something to think about. In the meantime, enjoy the video.

    http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2326

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36. NormanWillis
    Member

    

    Hi Comp.

    I am a little confused about something, and am not sure whether to ask this thread here, or on 'advanced info.'

    Am I correct that 1920 x 1080p is full HD spec, and that it is also 1K?  Because the 1K refers to the number of horizontal lines?

    So 5K would refer to a spec something like 9600 x 5400?  And that would be 'full frame'?  Or does 'full frame' refer to something else?

    Now since the EOS 5D Mk II nonetheless compresses the picture to store it on Compact Flash cards, how does that compare to a 1K live capture, say via HDMI or SDI out, to a video capture card like an AJA or an Intensity Pro?  Since the HDMI out is not compressed, how do the two images technically compare in terms of vibrancy, color, contrast, and all that?

    I watched the MacVideo vid again (twice) and I cannot tell anything negative about the picture from the EOS 5D Mk II.  When I watch Henry Olonga's work, I do see some jaggies  when he first begins the capture, which he says happens because it takes Cineform NeoHD about two seconds to figure out what is happening; but then the jaggies disappear, and he also acknowledges the reason they make it into his samples on Vimeo is just due to sloppy editing (i.e., that he should cut them out).

    I know the technology advances all the time (e.g., the EOS 5D Mk II and this thread), and so I want always to be improving my game.  However, I think that until hologram technology comes out (which won't be forever), probably the most I need to worry about with my end product is mebbe a 72" LCD home theatre system (or equivalent).  I know they plan to raise the bar to 2K in 2015, and I am just imagining that it will get raised to 4K some time around 2020 (but that is a total guess).  Basically I do not want to have to redo my stuff, but I don't think home theatre is going to get much bigger than a six foot screen.

    What are the technical advantages and disadvantages of 1K uncompressed versus 5K compressed?  (I hesitate even to think about 5K uncompressed.  Mind boggling.)  And regardless of the advantages/disadvantages, am I going to get the quality I need for a 72" LCD screen, so I don't have to 're-do' stuff every few years as they raise the bar?

    As always, your experience and knowledge is appreciated.

    Norman

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37. composite1
    Moderator

    

    "What are the technical advantages and disadvantages of 1K uncompressed versus 5K compressed? "

    Norman,

    Yeah, that one's definitely for the 'Advanced Info' Thread. As far as 'staying ahead', with a 5k cam onboard you'll be ahead of the game for some time. The problem with uncompressed HD video is Storage. The compressed files on the flash cards are huge as is. The good news is multi TB drive prices are dropping quickly as storage technology moves further toward solid-state.

    What I would like to see are some side-by-side comparisons of footage shot by those productions using both the RED ONE and the Mk II. I'd also like to see their workflow incorporating the two different file formats and what post-production support gear they use to make it all work.

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38. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Well if you are still trying to find excuses not to take a look at the 5D Mk II as a serious camera rig for video check out Cfulton's latest news on the freeware updates that allow for manual audio control, audio level meters, zebras and more. In the meantime, I've mentioned mounting rigs from Redrock Micro and now take a look at some of the modular mounts available from Zacuto.

     

    Get the Video Player

    .

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39. NormanWillis
    Member

    

    Comp,

    >>What I would like to see are some side-by-side comparisons of footage shot by those productions using both the RED ONE and the Mk II. I'd also like to see their workflow incorporating the two different file formats and what post-production support gear they use to make it all work.

    I would also like to see that.

    Norman

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40. composite1
    Moderator

    

    For anyone who wanted to see side by side comparisons of the Mk II vs other cameras like the RED ONE, EX3 and the XH1A just to name a few, watch 'The Great Shootout' video in the 'Advanced Info' thread. I was going to put it into this thread, but felt the discussion in the video went beyond the basic info most of the novice to intermediate shooters on the forum are looking for. Also, if you are wanting to get some insight about financing your projects and distributing your final product check out the 'Film Fellas' videos in the 'Writing on Spec' thread. Truthfully, all of this stuff is related and if you're doing this stuff for a living you really should take a look at it.

    Keep shooting.

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41. NormanWillis
    Member

    

    Hi Comp.

    I got a Canon HF S10, and love it.  It has way more features, and takes a much nicer picture than my FX1 ever did.  Also, I like the tapeless workflow.  Just be sure to back it up to three different places (and I also started an online backup offsite, although the upload times move at a crawl) before you erase the SDHC card.  Interestingly, I just discovered that my particular camera begins a new clip at just under the 2GB (approximately ten minute) mark.  I believe it is a defect, as Canon said it should be able to take up to a 2TB clip in one contiguous shoot, were there 2TB SDHC cards (which, of course there are not). 

    I discovered the defect when I went to lay down a few takes of a narration track that was about twelve or thirteen minutes long.  The first file is 1.99x GB long, and then the second clips are for the balance of each take.  I am not sure how this compares to an EOS 5D Mk II, but I am able just to take these clips and then butt them up to each other in the timeline, and they match up without problems.  If the EOS 5D Mk II is this way, then the 12 minute limit would not be a real problem, so long as it continues to capture (as the HF S10 does).

    I am writing both Canon and B&H, to see how this will get resolved, because while I can work around it, it should not be happening this way.  B&H has a fifteen day return policy (which I am almost two weeks over), but we will see what they do when I call them on the phone.  I did get an extended warranty, but cannot afford to be without a camera for any extended length of time right now, as I am shooting often.

    Anyhow, I just thought you might find that interesting.  I hope all is well with you.

    Norman 

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42. composite1
    Moderator

    

    Norman,

    Glad you found something that works for you. I took a look at the unit and for me it would make a nice 'crashcam' something I could get good imagery from, but wouldn't get bent if it got blown up. I don't know how comfy I am with a solid-state crashcam as the recording media is a touch pricey. Should the media be robust enough I could roll with it.

    I'm not sure if it's on this thread or the 'Advanced Info' one but I do believe I put a video from Zacuto on about a shoulder mount for the class of cameras you have. You might want to check that out.

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43. TDedmonSBP
    Member

    

    Hey Composite, After a long time looking at this guy I thin I have made the decision to pick one of these up. Within the next couple months I hope to get the body and two lenses plus some extra batteries and one of the shoulder shooters from red rock micro. This has been one of my favorite threads.

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44. composite1
    Moderator

    

    TD,

    Glad you've enjoyed the thread. Much as I love the VM forums, most times they offer little advanced info for the intermediate and above level participants. Anytime I can pitch a bone out there for you guys to gnaw on I feel like I've done my job.

    Good to hear about you getting the new rig. Unfortunately, I've got so much backlogged work I can't even think about picking up any new gear right now. However, just like you I've made up my mind to pick up a pair of MkII's once I get clear. With the firmware updates and support gear out now, it really looks like a solid choice for the serious filmmaker and still shooter. I've had a chance to play with one briefly and really don't recommend it for the casual shooter.

    My only conundrum is which camera support to get, the redrock or zacuto? Redrock = solid build, modular, light, slightly cheaper full kit. Zacuto, solid build, crazy modular, light, somewhat pricey with or w/o add-ons.

    Good luck with your purchases. I hope to get your thoughts in the thread.

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45. TDedmonSBP
    Member

    

    Yeah I'm going to have to get clear as well. I'm going to pick up a Redrock system because of the price, they seem really solid, and I think the Zacuto's are a little on the ugly side. My biggest decision will be in lens selection, I have always been a Nikon guy so all of my lenses (2 ha ha) have the wrong mounting system. I think it would be fun to pick up a lensbaby system to play with knowing it could be used for still or video.

     

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46. composite1
    Moderator

    

    TD,

    Funny about you being a 'Nikon Guy'. I started my career as a photographer with old-school Canon all manual rigs. Later when working as a phojo, I used higher-end Nikons. Now, I personally owned Canon EOS series cameras since they came out because I could not afford a Nikon at the time. It didn't take long to recognize that Canon made some 'effin' great rigs and I didn't have to cough up a lung to pay for one. Still liked shooting with the Nikon's though. Once I started my biz, I just rolled with the Canon's.

    Yeah, the Zacuto's are a bit on the 'Transformer' side of looks. I do like how modular they are though, but you're right the RDM's are just as good and cheaper.

    I tell you, I love this business but when you get to a certain level it just gets more and more expensive to 'play in'.

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47. TDedmonSBP
    Member

    

    Yeah my main reason for being a nikon guy is that I like the way they feel in my hand better. Not a real technical reason but it worked for me since I was in the entry level of cams and the quality for price was about the same. Recently I was playing with the new EOS Rebel (whichever is the step just below the 50D) and I really like the menu system on it much more than mine so I think the 5D would suit me well since it's getting on into the medium format cams. I actually got to handle one a few weeks ago and really liked the weight of it.

    I certainly understand the cost point. As I'm sure is true with you as well, being a business owner in this industry really makes you feel in it the pocket.

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48. TDedmonSBP
    Member

    

    Canon are sneaky buggers. Under our noses and in the midst of our talking about the 5D MKII they released the Rebel T1i (500D as it's known to other countries). I know what your thinking, "EOS Rebel?" YES whereas the 5D is a medium format full-framed camera. The new one fills in the step below as an entry level body or small-format camera. It still takes full 1080 but only at 3K, but really a 2K res difference isn't a deal killer considering this comes in at MSRP $899. Was doing some research and found this puppy so I thought I would throw it around.

    http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=18385#ModelFeaturesAct

    http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_500D_Digital_Rebel_T1i/

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49. composite1
    Moderator

    

    TD,

    Thanks for the head's up about the Rebel T1i. I'll keep an eye out for it.

    Posted 3 months ago # Login to Send PM

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