Forums » Production Gear

1. ralck
   Member

   

   I know there's an editing software section of the forum, but this isn't specifically about one "brand" or version.

   Right now I'm a student in college and am starting to save up money for some video editing software.  I'm using Avid FreeDV right now.  If I understand it correctly based on the terms of some of these programs, some can only be used for personal use (like home movies), some for students (student licenses), and some for "professional" use where you can legally sell your edited film.

   What I'm trying to understand is which programs offer the "professional" use?  Does Vegas Pro offer that?  Which version of Premire offers that?  Also, I was told a while back I can buy a student version of Avid Xpress now, and when I graduate I can "upgrade" it to their Media Composer software for "only" $1000, but that's like getting $6000 worth of software for 1300, and gives me the "professional" use.

   I'm not trying to ask the "which is better" question here, just find out what my options are so I can make the best decision based on what editor I like.  Any help or tips on figuring this stuff out is greatly appreciated.

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

2. robgrauert
   Member

   

    Got a Mac? Final Cut Studio 2. $600 for the student version. Exactly the same as the regular version except you can't upgrade to Final Cut Studio 3 when that comes out. It doesn't matter thought because there were years in between Final Cut Studio and Final Cut Studio 2. And besides, Apple doesn't check to see if you're really a student. So when FCS3 comes out, just keep saying you're a student. 

    I wouldn't recommend Avid. It's way to expensive to get all the bells and whistles. And when you do get all the bells and whistles after dropping thousands and thousands of dollars, it's not really much better than Final Cut Studio.  

   Final Cut is being used by more and more pros and it's working it's way more and more into the industry. At least where I'm from, it's all students use. So what's the industry going to do when we all graduate? Not use Final Cut?  

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

3. ralck
   Member

   

   From what I understand, when you buy anacademic license, it's only good while you are still a student even though it's the same software as the "pro" version.  Is it different with FCS?

   This brings up another question- while I'm still a student, if I use a student license of a program, am I technically able to sell my work, or is it only for school work pertaining to my classes?

   As far as not recomending Avid, that's for me to decide.  Right now I'm trying to get a list of which versions will allow me to sell my work so I can investigate which editor I like best, which has the features I need, and the price I'm willing to pay.

   Also, I would personally think the industry will tell their editors to learn/use whatever they already have?  I don't see major studios buying a new, different software package every time students graduate with a different preference.  In any case, I'm not terribly interested in the industry as my focus is more on my own indy creations with the ability to do what I want, not what I'm told.  If I ever do make it big, I expect I'll have editors that will be able to do a better job than I can with post.  Even though I enjoy all aspects of filmmaking, I enjoy pre-production and production the most.

   All-in-all I'm just looking to get clarity on what these software licenses allow/disallow because I don't want to have something go to a Toronto or Sundance or be nominated for Best Picture and then be disqualified because I broke software license. :-P (or more accurately on the level that I'm doing now... I don't want to shoot a training video for a company and then be sued by Avid or Sony or Adobe, etc).

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

4. robgrauert
   Member

   

    FCS sends you a bundle for $600 and you can do whatever you want with it. Load it up to more than one computer if you want. Just don't register the software. There's no limit to the student version that I have except that I won't upgrade to FCS3, which won't be for years anyway.

    You ask this question about software not being allowed for projects you are selling...First of all, I've never heard of that rule. Second, how are people going to know what software you use. I think someone gave you the wrong information on that one.

    I really know how the industry will deal with everyone learning Final Cut, but I don't think anyone is going to say "You have to learn this program" They just look for people who already know the programs they have. And it just so happens that a lot of people are investing in Final Cut and are looking for final cut editors. Trust me, I do freelance work and a lot of people look for Final Cut editors or just don't care what you use.

    And to your last paragraph, I highly doubt you will be disqualified from a festival if you use FCP, that is, if that rule even exists. It's too popular...so many people use it. And you're not going to be getting sued over what editing software you use.  

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

5. Ryan3078
   Member

   

    Go to www.academicsuperstore.com

    The site will check to see if you are enrolled in a university, or will have you fax a student ID and some other paperwork.  You can get Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 or any other piece of software at extreme discounts.  For example Premiere is under $350.

   All the software is completely professional - there's nothing like a student version where you can't make videos and sell them.  You can do whatever you want with the software - no restricting license.

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

6. chrisColorado
   Member

   

   I think what you mean is the price? maybe? I haven't heard of any academic version/license of any software. It's just cheaper. but you are right in asking this because it will help you sleep at night later in life.

   I would buy the normal pro version, because less hassle legal-wise, but I talked to a guy at adobe.com about getting a student discount even though I graduated college in May. He said you just have to fax or email your transcripts copy and photo ID or student ID card...something like that. Anyway, look into this, becasue it sounded way easy and adobe stuff is good.

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

7. ralck
   Member

   

   Thanks for the replies guys - I looked over academic superstore and am very interested in that.  I'm still a current student (and will be for at least another 2-3 years... maybe more if I add a third+ major :-P), so I don't have to worry too much about proving I'm a student!

   I think a lot of my confusion about student licenses is that my "main" major at school is Computer Engineering, so I basically study computer hardware and computer software.  I while back (actually when I was in middle school) I got some student licenses of some MS Visual Studio stuff (my dad is a network admin at a school so that's how I got the academic stuff).  I read part of those licenses and they made specific mention that it was a student license and can only be used for academic purposes.  I guess I just figured that all "student" licenses were the same way.  Good to know editing software isn't like that!

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

8. chrisColorado
   Member

   

   I just remembered - my copy of Autodesk Maya(called Maya PLE) says specifically "Not for Commercial Use" on the welcome screen. I think this is kind of bogus, but oh well. Maya PLE is a free download, kind of like a free trial. It's not specifically called an academic version, but PLE stands for Personal Learning Edition. Sort of academic I guess.

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

9. jerronsmith
   Moderator

   

   "I read part of those licenses and they made specific mention that it was a student license and can only be used for academic purposes.  I guess I just figured that all "student" licenses were the same way.  Good to know editing software isn't like that!"

   Actually, it is like that, the people giving you advice here just don't know what they are talking about.

   Technically, when you buy software you aren't really buying it you are actually licensing it from the company that created it. Because of this they can bind you to the terms of a licensing agreement. While the software sold under the full retail license and the academic license are the same the agreements in general are not. While in general you are free with a retail license to do just about anything you want (usually except backwards engineer it) an academic license is  more restrictive. Some of them are intended to only be used for the duration of your studies, others only to be used on non-commercial projects, others may be more restrictive, companies have a lot of leeway in how they write the agreements. When you click that little button "i agree to the licensing agreement" button you are effectively agreeing to abide by it even if you haven't read it as many don't. Now, while not all academic software license agreements may have limitations like these, FCP, Premiere PRO, and AVID do.

   Of course I must add that it is nearly impossible to enforce these licensing agreements. But technically they do exist.

   To address some specific issues:

   >>FCS sends you a bundle for $600 and you can do whatever you want with it. Load it up to more than one computer if you want. Just don't register the software. There's no limit to the student version that I have except that I won't upgrade to FCS3, which won't be for years anyway.<<

   Actually, If you read the material that came with the program it should tell you that while you can install it on multiple machines, you are limited to running the software on one machine at any given time. One of the things that FCP will do when it turns on is check your local network for any other machines running FCP and if it detects others with the same serial number it shuts itself down. It is a security mechanism to prevent people  with multiple machines from buying one copy of the software and ghosting it to multiple machines to create their own studio. Unless they changed it very recently, the academic version has has a clause against using it for commercial work.

    >>And besides, Apple doesn't check to see if you're really a student. So when FCS3 comes out, just keep saying you're a student.<<

   You realize that technically that would be fraud right?

   About Me:

   I have spent the last 17 years working in media. For five years I helped run the day to day operations of the Visual Communications, Digital Media, and Digital Filmmaking programs at the Katherine Gibbs School in NYC. As part of that jobs I had to deal with licensing agreements concerning software from Adobe, Apple, Avid, and Microsoft.

   Jerron Smith
   Editor-Animator-Educator

   Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

10. ralck
    Member

    

    Jerronsmith,

    Thanks for the great post!  I guess it was too good to be true getting a retail license for an academic price!

    Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the licenses (academic and/or retail) before I buy so I can see what is allowed, etc?  Also, do you know if any companies offer a somewhat cheaper "upgrade" from an academic license to a retail license?

    Call me old fashion, but I want to be legal (at least when it comes to editing... I can't make any promises about my car speed :-P).  It's why I got a legal copy of XP when I needed it and a legal copy of Vista when I wanted to upgrade.  And why I buy the games I want to play and rent the movies I want to see.

    Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

11. jerronsmith
    Moderator

    

    >>Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the licenses (academic and/or retail) before I buy so I can see what is allowed, etc?  Also, do you know if any companies offer a somewhat cheaper "upgrade" from an academic license to a retail license?<<

    Many companies have the information on their website or a contact email or phone number for assistance on licensing. You can probably also get it by installing a demo copy of the software. Many programs have a folder named Legal that is installed rigth aong with the application. It can be tricky though, for example Adobe has a generic software agreement but expects the user to go to their site and review the academic software usage restrictions.

    >>Call me old fashion, but I want to be legal (at least when it comes to editing... I can't make any promises about my car speed :-P).  It's why I got a legal copy of XP when I needed it and a legal copy of Vista when I wanted to upgrade.  And why I buy the games I want to play and rent the movies I want to see.<<

    Where I come from it is called being professional. The fact is that merely because you won't get caught doesn't make something right. By the way, I believe that some companies do actually have exemptions for the use of their software for projects created for film festivals and things like that. But once again I would suggest that you consult each companies site.

    Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

12. Coreece
    Member

    
    
    

    Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

13. chrisColorado
    Member

    

    Thanks, Jerron! I'd never got too deep into it before. Thanks for your knowledge.

    Posted 4 months ago # Login to Send PM

14. dtraer
    Member

    

     Currently I am editing on my Mac Book Pro. I want to buy a desktop system and begin using that, because I'm starting to get more editing work. Problem is, when it come to desktops, I'm a PC guy who doesn't know what to look for in an Apple.

    Also, I have a very small budget ($1500)and I'm looking for used gear, if necessary.  Can someone recommend basic requirements?

    Posted 3 months ago # Login to Send PM

15. robgrauert
    Member

    

     what are you gonna be editing. HD or SD? How big will the projects be? Are you gonna be doing any graphics? 

    Posted 3 months ago # Login to Send PM

16. D0n
    Member

    

     for $1500 I'd be looking at adding a 23 inch cinema display to my macbook pro, maxing out the ram on my macbook pro and buying up some lacie or buffalo firewire harddrives....

    or getting a 24 inch imac and a couple gigs of ram.

    I stick with final cut.

    If you start your own business, and you take your profits and reinvest them in yourself/ your staff....you can maintian your student status while reducing your taxload by actually going back to school to "upgrade" your skills every couple years. (I went back to school as a college student just to prove to myself I could. ( I have learning disabilities, was self taught and started my own business with nothing, not even grade nine.) My photography instructor still sends work my way, when he's booked (he runs a business, as well as instructs), and my marketing proffessor assured me when he retires (due to conflict of interest policies) he's going to call me about some joint ventures.

    So be a student, use a student licence. Save on taxes. Use the money you save on taxes to buy the newest versions. Be honest. Sleep well at night. Did I mention save on taxes? 

    Posted 3 months ago # Login to Send PM

RSS feed for this topic