EX1 - gone, now what? « Videomaker Forums

fisherman
Member

I just dumped my EX1 after having it and wanting to love it for months. For what I need it for, (hand held, tight quarters) I just couldn't live with the fact that it's a horrible camera to hold for more than 10 minutes! Yes, it's got everything and more, but if you can't hold it, and shoot with it comfortably, what good is it! And new media cards for $800-$1200 a whack? Thats whack!

So, on to the next camera. BUT, which one? I need HD, broadcast standard 35mbps, affordable media and something that shoots great quality for TV. there's a few I like but lack the 35Mbps (sony Z5U and the Panasonic HM150). What abut the new JVC camera, only 1/4 chips but is that good enough for tv when I'm shooting outside in high light??

Suggestions? Other camera's I should be looking for in the 3-5k range?

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
composite1
Moderator

Fisher,

Take a look at the JVC GYHD200UB. Pro camera, tape based (cheaper by far), but you can use a portable harddrive (cheaper and more space than cards) and now if needed, you can get an SxS adapter. Does 720p standard, 1080i with harddrive or SxS. It's shoulder mountable and not much heavier than a fully aftermarket rigged XL1s. Broadcast & theatrical quality without the heavy price. B&H has some reasonable kits that will allow you to get the cam and a set AB batteries within or slightly above your price range.

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
jburkhart

You've pretty much narrowed it down to the one model left that fits all your criteria. The JVC GY HM100. It's small, handheld, and does the 35Mbps Mpeg codec. The 1/4 inch chips should perform quite well in full sunlight, low light conditions are really where the larger chips shine.

I played with one at NAB this year, but we're still waiting to get one in from JVC for a review. My impressions of it were very favorable, and it is indeed very light.

Alternatively, Hoodman makes a great product called wristshot (Our Review), that's designed to take a lot of the strain out of holding the larger "handheld" camcorders like the EX-1.

Are you shooting for a particular network? As each one has it's own parameters about camcorder acquisition formats.

Hope this helps,

John Burkhart
Editor-in-Chief
Videomaker

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
fisherman
Member

Wow, the JVC GYHD200U seems like way to big of a camera for my use, I shoot on boats mostly, I think that thing might actually tip the boat to one side! :-) But thank you. I really wanted to get away from the SxS cards as well. Sony's prop. BS kills me, with all the other affordable media formats on the market (well, not all, but you know what I mean). Yes, it's awesome, but come on $1200 for a 32 gig card? Crazy....

jburkhart: Yes, the HM100 is of great interest and I need to get my hands on one to see what it can do! I hear it's making a big stir on the market. In high light I would imagine it'd be fine...??? I also like the Panasonic HMC150 but from what I see, it doesn't provide 35Mbps.

I shoot for many different networks, mostly the outdoor channel and some local stuff as well. 35Mbps seems to be the standard for the networks I've done work for (minor work, I'm certainly no big wig shooter) mostly b roll stuff. Still, would love to see something else to fit these needs! Thanks guys...

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
composite1
Moderator

"the JVC GYHD200U seems like way to big of a camera for my use, I shoot
on boats mostly, I think that thing might actually tip the boat to one
side! :-)

Fisher,

I've shot stuff from a fast moving zodiac over choppy seas with a BetaCam-SP and a 5 pound Schwimm Gyro Stablizer lens on the end and the 200U doesn't come close to the weight or balance issue. The HM100 looks like a viable option but it's .mov only for final cut WTHISUPWT? Fortunately, the rest of the nle's in the world can use .mov's but those cards still ain't cheap. And their smaller than the SxS cards! Have fun trying to change those monkeys out on a cold day in choppy waters. I'd say run with a panasonic, but if you were blown up about the SxS cards the P2's would send you thermal.

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
fisherman
Member

I hear ya, was more thinking along the lines of the panasonic 150, it has it's drawbacks as well....I really wish the EX1 was ergonomically friendly...maybe the EX3 is the way to go...again, just hate the SxS cost...the JCV HM100 seems great, BUT it too has it's drawbacks! You see the dillema!

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
jburkhart

Just got word from JVC that our GY HM100 is on the way! We should have one to test on friday. Obviously our full review will take some time, but if you have any specific questions or tests you'd like to see, we can follow up on them for you.

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
robgrauert
Member

I agree with Composite. Go with a Panasonic, like an HVX or HPX170. They are coming out with the E Series P2 cards and the 64GB cards will be less than a $1000

Robert J. Grauert, Jr
http://www.robgrauert.com

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
composite1
Moderator

Jburk,

Thanks for the heads up on the review. Yeah, definitely look into the ease of putting in those cards and taking them out. The scenario I mentioned earlier is something I've faced often. Fumbling with nearly frozen fingers to get a tape in/out or hooking up a fresh harddrive is always fun. Also, if possible talk about the weight and ergonomics of the camera. One thing that turned me off on the Panasonic hand-held rigs vs the JVC pro cameras was they felt too fragile. Not that I plan on slamming the cam into anything, but it's nice to know your rig can withstand the usual 'bumps and grinds' they'll inevitably will receive during their working lifetime. Oh, and see if those .mov files the cam can record to can be played by other non-mac specific nle's. I see from JVC's website that they have optimized them for FCP (hello, the rest of the world doesn't use FCP) but are they trying to say that .mov files won't work on a PC using Avid, Premiere, Vegas or any other cross-platform software that handles quicktime files with no prob? Lastly, seriously talk about the image quality in the various formats it can shoot and what kind of image controls it has. It looks to be a very flexible shooter and when I make the full move to tapeless workflow, it or the 5D Mk II will be the first in our stable.

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
composite1
Moderator

Fisher,

Far as the EX1 not being ergo friendly, do you know of an aftermarket fix? I still love the Canon XL1s, but hate Canon's 'buzzsaw mentality' where it comes to ergonomics. The way we got around that was to put an MA-200 audio adapter on the end making it not only shoulder mountable, but capable of holding receivers or dual battery packs. The fix completely neutralized the buzzsaw and turned it into a straight up pro rigged camera. The only reason we aren't using the XH series is because they scrapped that aftermarket capability. Maybe there is an aftermarket shoulder mount that may solve your problem?

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
fisherman
Member

YES, I tried a few differnet shoulder rigs some friends had, they definitely helped balance out the camer and took off the weight, but they made the camera (for my liking) less flexible for shooting situations. I forget the name of the one I liked most, but it had a curved shoulder brace where once you put it on your shoulder, you could actually remove your hand and it could rest on your shoulder. Not only was it stable it was also light, so it was a fix as I saw it, but not good enough to me. Personally, a camera in that price range should be good as it is and not need a bunch of other gadgets to compensate for poor design, I think thats why Sony immediatly came out with the EX3 with the shoulder pad. Next to one another, there aren't a ton of better features on the EX3 other than the design.

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
fisherman
Member

JBURKHART

Same as composite1, great questions to flush out for the HM100. Also, is there a way you can do an image comparison of it's 3 CCD 1/4 inch chips compared to the image of a single CMOS chip or a 3 CMOS chip camera? I'm mostly intrested in normal light settings as I think the answer to this question in low light situations is predicatable.

The image tests I see on line for the HM100 in normal/high light, outdoor settings seems to me like the colors don't pop as you would expect. The color saturation looks drawn out, boring and not vibrant. I use an HD monitor and with some other cameras in the same class or less, like the Sony A1U seem much better. The A1U uses a single 1/3 CMOS chip. I would imagine a 3CCD 1/4 chip would look better, NO?

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
composite1
Moderator

Fisher,

That's too bad about not being able to use an aftermarket fix. I felt the same way about the XH1. Didn't make sense to pay $9k+ for a camera that was mega-front heavy and you couldn't get a simple aftermarket fix to balance it out. I was just looking at the EX3 and despite the little shoulder pad thingie, it still looks like it would be front heavy. You start changing lenses on that thing and look out.

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
fisherman
Member

JBURKHART,

One more thing, can you confirm/deny that once you remove the top handle (that has the XLR ports attached) is there a seperate on board mic? For example, let's say I want to take the cam someplace where I won't be needing the XLR inputs or mini shotgun that comes with it, so I remove the handle and away I go...is audio picked up through an internal onboard mic or in order to get audio do you have to use the attachemnt handle?

Thanks, have fun testing!

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
jburkhart

We just got the JVC in. I'm going to start a new thread to discuss it and testing here.

That way we can leave this thread open for suggestions on other cameras, and move any GY-HM100 specific conversations to the new thread.

Thanks,

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
NormanWillis
Member

Hi Comp.

>>It looks to be a very flexible shooter and when I make the full move to tapeless workflow, it or the 5D Mk II will be the first in our stable.

What do you like about the EOS 5D Mk II?

Norman

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
composite1
Moderator

"What do you like about the EOS 5D Mk II?"

Norman,

To keep from hijacking this thread anyone interested should check out the new thread, '5k Anyone?'

Posted 5 months ago # Login to Send PM
NormanWillis
Member

OK, good call

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