Questions about fluid heads

1. ralck
   Member

   

   So I'm looking into getting a new tripod and as everyone knows, fluid head is the way to go.

   The problem is, I don't know much about fluid heads, so I'm getting confused by some of the technical details.  The camera that will mainly be used is a Sony VX2000 with Beachtex XLR adapter (microphone will be on a boom, not connected to the camera), so nothing too heavy.  Do I go with a head that can support around 6-8 pounds, or is it better to go with something that can support 20 pounds to help keep pans and tilts smooth?

   What about fluid-head types?  I see some say 2-way fluid head, others say 3-way fluid head, etc.  Is there a significant difference in these?  What's the advantage of a 3-way over a 2-way?

   What about arms?  I see some tripods have a single arm, some have dual arms, some have angled arms while others have straight arms.  My guess would be this all comes down to preference, but are there any subtle advantages to one arm style over another?

   Also, tripod legs seem to be very important.  I see styles such as telescoping and "crutch" style.  It seems like people prefer the crutch style, but why?

   Throughout my research it seems like Bogen and Arri are the best of the best?  What makes them so much better than others?

   Here's the tough part- as with 90% of others out there, I'm on a fairly tight budget and would like to spend around $200 to $250 max.  I know that leaves me with only the entry-level fluid heads, but what would you guys recomend?  Are there any other features I need to look into that I don't know about?

   Someone recomended this kit in another thread.  I don't think I really need the dolly, but it might be useful (or it might be a piece of junk)?

   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243272-REG/Davis_Sanford_PROVISTA7518_Pro_Vista_Tripod_with.html

   Thanks for any help! :)

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2. FallingStarFilms
   Member

   

   I posted that link. For me, this tripod works very well. I've used it for a couple of professional shoots now and it is everything I need.  Like you, I don't need a dolly - but I've got one!  A word on the dolly, you really have to be on a smooth surface to get a nice traveling shot. 

   I'm using a VX2100 (which is basically the same camera you are using, and I also use a JuicedLink mixer (which is similar to the Beachtek that you use).  As far as the telescoping legs, they work - so I don't have any issues although the vast majority of opinions encourage the crutch syle, but like you I'm not completely sure why.

   I chose this tripod for it's incredibly smooth pans and tilts and for the double strut leg construction.  It also comes with a very nice padded bag and an extra mounting plate.

   There are most likely many wonderful tripods in the price range that you are looking in, but I can only offer my review of the one I own.  I hope you get more replies about other models.

   Good Luck,

   Trey

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3. ralck
   Member

   

   Thanks for the reply!

   It's good to hear your positive review of that tripod- it's now in the list of possibilities. :)  I'm not sure if you know, but in doing research I've found a lot of websites talking about what really is a fluid-head and what is not (for example, the Bogen 501 listed on B&H as a fluid head is fluid pan and friction tilt).  Do you know if this is a "true" fluid head?  Sorry for all the questions, but one thing that worries me about Davis Sanford is that they supposedly fall apart fairly easy (screws come loose and it then wobbles).  How long have you owned yours and have you noticed anything like this?  I generally take very good care of my equipment, but still the more durable, the better.

   Let me break up this post for one moment to respond to my own question from earlier.  This may be obvious to a lot of people, but took me a good bit of google searching to find myself, so I thought I'd post the "answer" for those that might not know it like me.  A 2-way head means that it can pan and tilt up and down.  A 3-way head means that it can pan, tilt up and down, and also tilt left and right.  Easy enough... though it wasn't entirely aparent to me originally.

   Other than that tripod, in doing research I've also found several on B&H that might be an option for me.  I was hoping to get a few opinions about these from people who have experienced them (especially if they are true fluid heads or not).

   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131444-REG/Libec_THM20_TH_M20_Aluminum_2_Stage_Tripod.html - This has a counterweight, is one of the tallest leg sets (by only a few inches), and has what I think is the type of legs more people like?

   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243272-REG/Davis_Sanford_PROVISTA7518_Pro_Vista_Tripod_with.html - One from above post.

   I'm excluding the Bogen kit I found because it was using the 501HDV head which isn't true fluid-head (though am I really going to find a true fluid head in this price range?)

   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/146249-REG/Velbon_VMATE607F_Videomate_607_Tripod_with.html - I threw this in only because it was so cheap, but I've got a strong hunch that it's not a true fluid head.  I also have ready several reviews of it that aren't terribly favorable, so this is really only a last resort.

   One other thing I've noticed during my research is that some tripods don't have the leg spreaders.  I'm talking about the piece that goes between the legs, usually seems to be in the middle of the legs or at the very bottom, and helps make sure they open to a certain distance and stay there.  I thought this was a must for stability, but some of these legs are the more expensive ones (I know, more expense doesn't always mean quality).  So what would be the advantage of no spreader?  Are you supposed to use a detachable spreader with these legs or something?

   I hope I'm asking the right questions.  I'm not trying to ask for the "super mega awesome perfect" tripod for super cheap; I'm just trying to find out what details/specs are available on tripods (and get the most information about different types of tripods) so I can make the best choice for my own needs.

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4. sham
   Member

   

   Ralck,  if you can spend only $200 to $250 don't expect to get a good fluid head tripod.  Unless you're lucky to find a bargain, of course.  The first tripod I bought was a "Velbon Videomate Mini-Pro Fluid Panhead" for about $70.  Like you, I didn't have the money.  I got so much shake from that tripod. The best way to use it was to switch on the camera, lock both pan and tilt heads and don't touch the camera until you were ready to switch off.  The next tripod I bought was a Libec for about $500.  That was a significant improvement but the head did not have adjustment for pan and drag.  So the head was always too "free." Finally I purchased a Vinten Pro Touch for $900.  I am happy with it.  No shakes and there is adjustment for pan and drag.  Don't buy a tripod with a centre column.  Buy a tripod with the spreader on the floor.  I believe you will save yourself a lot of grief and some money too if you put out the money for a good tripod from the start.  That is, if you are aiming to be a pro.

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5. robgrauert
   Member

   

    I agree and disagree with sham. 

   Definitely don't get one with a center column. It's unstable. I've seen news cameramen (actually, women) in Philly, PA use those tripods and extend the column all the way up and then not even extend the tripod legs. Not only is it unstable like I just said, but it looks ridiculous. 

   I wouldn't get one that has the spreader on the floor though. I feel it would get in the way if you were on an uneven surface. If you don't get one with a spreader on the floor, definitely get one that has the spreader that's half way up the legs or whatever it is.  

   Robert J. Grauert, Jr
   http://www.robgrauert.com
   http://command-r.tumblr.com

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6. ralck
   Member

   

   Thanks for the replies!

   Once I was about into day 2 or 3 of my research of tripods, I found out that "true" fluid heads are in the $1000+ range and that ones in my price range are usually refered to as fluid-effect.

   For those who are just starting to do their research, fluid-effect means it uses a viscious substance (I see a lot of people say it's usually a form of thick grease or thick oil) and friction plates instead of a fluid pack that true fluid heads use (I'm still not quite sure what a fluid pack is, but I think it's some form of multiple disks with fluid to dampen them?).

   Unfortunetaly, no matter how much I want to be pro, I just don't have the resources to get a "pro" tripod.  Fluid head is just out of my budget at this point (college is expensive!).  I'm still learning all sorts of things about film and at this point it's mainly a very serious hobby for me (I've made a grand total of $50 doing film work, but it's a start).  Though I take very good care of my equipment, I'm going to have to get a fluid-effect tripod to use as a "starter" tripod (I don't think I'm going to count my current tripod on account of how jerky and wobbly it is... but it was free :-P).  If I can get really lucky on ebay and find a good set, then I'll go for that, but even most of those seem to go into the $500+ range which is out of my budget.

   Now to get slightly back on topic... Both of you say don't get a center post.  I agree that a center post adds instability; there's no question about that.  But it does add "emergency" height in my mind.  Now, the only time I've had to use the center post on my Slik sticks was filming a tall person in which case the camera wasn't moving (they were standing still).  Any tripod that doesn't have a center post that I've seen has a maximum height of about 5 feet (60 inches).  So being as low-budget as I am and how much "versatility" I do with shooting, I feel like having this as a backup to get a few more inches of height might be worth it (And if I need more height I can assure you I'll extend the legs fully before using the center column :-P I always have and always will)?  Can you recomend any good legs (or entire set) without a center post, but still has a good height?

   Sorry... didn't mean for this post to be quite so long; I got carried away a bit.

   Thanks for the help though!  Every google search and every question I ask gets me a little closer to really understanding this stuff.

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7. robgrauert
   Member

   

   When I first started, I got a tripod for 180 dollars. Like Sham said above, tripods in that price range may wobble, but mine works fine until I put a 2x teleconverter on my camera and zoom all the way in. You should be able to find something decent on http://www.bhphotovideo.com

   this is the one I have. There isn't anything I don't like about my tripod other than it doesn't have pan or tilt drag. I think as a college student (like myself) you will find this is suitable.

   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131444-REG/Libec_THM20_TH_M20_Aluminum_2_Stage_Tripod.html

     

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8. ralck
   Member

   

   Thanks for the reply!

   I was looking at the Libec earlier (I actually posted the same B&H link above :-P).  I was able to get some hands on experience with some Libecs and I'm not sure I entirely like them.  There is a Matthews set on B&H using those same legs and a very similar head (but all the reviews say it's better).  If I can get some hands-on with that tripod I might go for it.  The thing I'm concerned about is these only go to about 60".  What if you need to do an interview with a 6-foot tall person?  How do you get the extra height?

   On an off topic, what do you guys think of this head on ebay?  It's missing the quick-release plate and pan handle, but I can probably get those from OConnor or maybe on Ebay?

   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130233079459

   (Please don't bid on it though :-P)

   Then I could get a decent set of legs from B&H and have a really nice tripod?  Even with all the research I've done, I still feel like I don't know enough to do that correctly :-P.

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